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The JOY Podcast: Episode Nine


HubSpot Video


In this episode of The JOY Podcast series, Debbie Tuel, Chief Joy Officer at Symphony Talent, sat down with Kyle Lagunas to share a discussion all about the power of building strong relationships with vendors, employees and the rest of the team.

Kyle also discusses the importance of having a Talent Operations specialist on your team. When undertaking a major talent acquisition transformation initiative, it is important for stakeholders in the organization to understand exactly why it needs to be done. Is it driving a positive experience? Does it have the right KPIs in place? Will the initiative better engage with the people the organization wants to attract or retain? Larger companies are starting to embrace the notion of having talent ops to help answer these questions and implement.

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Debbie: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to The JOY Podcast, where we get to shine a light on how global organizations are helping to get people back to work faster and with an exceptional experience. I'm Debbie Tuel, Chief Joy Officer at Symphony Talent, and we are a global technology company for those that are not familiar with Symphony, that is leading this industry wide movement in partnership with our customers and our prospects and industry leaders alike. It is a journey that we are calling The Joy Pipeline. And we are so excited that you are joining us on this #journeyofyes. If this is your first time that you're joining us, you might be wondering. What is The Joy Pipeline? This is our mission to really help recruiting teams bring the joy back to the recruiting experience for candidates and recruiters alike. And we know that it is a mission that is really critical to the deliver on excellence today. So this week, we are coming to you from Detroit. And I am so excited to tell you that the guest that we've got joining us is one that I've been trying to get on to this show since Episode One. He is a fellow Texan that has migrated his way north to Boston, just like I have. And we have so much to share with you guys today. Welcome, Kyle Lagunas. He is the global Head of Talent Attraction and Sourcing. No - Talent Attraction and Insights at GM. It is a mouthful. But Kyle, how are you doing today?

Kyle: [00:01:36] I'm doing very well and I am excited to be here. It is a mouthful of a title, but, you know, I'm extra and I always have been.

Debbie: [00:01:47] When they offered you the job were you're like, actually, we just need to add a couple of little extra things on this title for me.

Kyle: [00:01:52] No, I actually wanted something similar. I wanted to be the Head of Talent Acquisition or Talent Transformation, and he just like stared at me. He's like, what does that mean?

Debbie: [00:02:04] You're like and this is what it actually means. And Kyle, I'm trying to think back. So we were probably introduced to each other about seven years ago, which is crazy. I think at the time that you were on the analyst side of the business, you were working with Madeline [Laurano] and you were advising SmashFly, if I'm not mistaken. And these were in the early days when recruitment marketing was still being formed. And you got to be front and center in helping advise companies, like ours, on what that meant to the market. Now, fast forward, here you are on the practitioners side, really getting to implement and execute all of those strategies that you've been forming over the last decade, really. And so we've got lots of insights. I look at it and I'm like, wow, I'm so excited for Kyle. You're really kind of this triple threat. Now, you've got the experience on the analyst side, really advising organizations on what recruitment marketing is. You've got an experience on the vendor side, really helping in advising on the solutions to take to market. Now we've got the vendor, or actually the practitioner side, where you get to take all of those learnings and implement it. I'd love for you to talk to us a little bit about how those three experiences and different points of view have really been in the job that you get to do today.

Kyle: [00:03:30] Oh, my goodness. It has been a journey. In fact, I knew Smash Fly when you were beta. I think that Chris Bradley showed me some pre applied toolkits as a like a demo when I was just a baby blogger. So it has been insane to watch this market. I mean, form and now seeing it mature. As an analyst, you get to see a lot. People want to talk to you about what they're working on. From the vendor side, how they're innovating on the practitioner side. They want you to help them make heads or tails of this, the marketing pitches, the sales promises and how they can cut through and figure out what's what to really do. As an analyst, no one tells you that they disagree with you like, oh, that's interesting, that's good feedback, or I hadn't thought of that when they're really saying, like, what the hell are you talking about?

Debbie: [00:04:37] Different than how I see it.

Kyle: [00:04:39] Yeah. Well, I mean, I maybe I look at it was a really great entry point into this incredibly dynamic world of talent acquisition and human resources, again, because you're invited to sit down with pretty much anyone and whoever wants to show you what they're doing. They want your thoughts, which was really cool. It was I mean, a really quick ramp up, right. To being considered an expert. It was kind of it was kind of interesting to be considered an expert in things like talent acquisition and and recruiting technologies, having never recruited before, having never implemented a system before, having never owned a delivery for anything, just being an ideas person. And so I was very self-conscious about that going into the vendor side, I almost immediately learned that my ideas were only as good as the intangible value those ideas could bring. No one wanted to hear just what I had to say. They wanted to know what my expertise could do for them. And so it was it was two years on that side, I would say, were as valuable from a learning experience as ten years before as an analyst. It was a real bootcamp kind of thing. Now, of course, one of those ten years was also during covid and I was really surprised to find myself in a plant operating as almost like a lightning rod for our culture. We all know it was really hard year last year and especially the first three months going like staring into lockdown, realizing that two weeks was two months, which might be the rest of the year. And I think that was where I started to get more of a sense of who I could be and what kind of impact I could make, not as an ideas person, but as a strategist and as someone who cares. I just am a genuinely caring person. So looking now at this practitioner role and I mean, I honestly wouldn't even consider myself a practitioner. I have three teams that report to me. I have our talent marketing team, our talent sourcing team, and our talent insights teams. And I tell every one of them, you are my experts. I do not know how to do your job. I know the value and the purpose of your job. I know some of the obstacles that you encounter, both process wise or culture wise or funding wise. And and my job is to unblock and to enable you to succeed. In fact, I told them the team on my in my first week, my job here is to make you successful. My goal is for this time next year, every one of you getting recruited for a bigger and better job. It's going to be very sad to see you go. But that success for this role now getting over here, though. Gosh, I mean, right from my very first day, I started running a evaluation's for CRM, career site, AI capabilities, and I, I think I took for granted in many of us do how little people know about this process, how little expertise with just the gap and expertise that exists in a lot of recruiting teams. And I can't imagine being in my first eight weeks we completed an evaluation for global solutions. I cannot imagine any other org trying to do that without having someone that has this degree of expertise and experience.

Debbie: [00:08:22] So it really rounds out your knowledge base because as you know, sitting on on the side that you are now, you know what questions to ask the vendors that maybe you wouldn't have if you hadn't been on that side. And you know how to structure the questions that you should ask and the types of evaluations that you should run because of the expertise you have coming from the other side.

Kyle: [00:08:44] I hope so. I mean, look, especially when you're an analyst, there is and just a general influencer in the HR recruiting space. There is a little saltiness about the people love to throw around this accusation of being pay to play and just being a shill for any vendor like that kind of thing. So I have spent a decade having my integrity questioned, you know, and really taking that to heart and saying, OK, well, then let me create an evaluation that leaves no question as to the objectiveness of my analysis. You know, no one wants to think that they're on the especially the better side. No one wants to be told their baby is ugly. They're going to fight you tooth and nail to insist, no, no, my baby doesn't have brown eyes, has blue eyes. You see the brown eyes, you know, that kind of stuff. So now here, I mean, I can run a meeting and no one can push me around. I know I can lean into my expertise and experience, having looked at the space for so long. But I also know how to partner because I've been on the vendor side and saw just how much practitioner teams struggle to achieve partnership. It was so weird for people to say, oh, I don't know if I'm actually had to answer that question. Yes, you are, like we're not like, what do you mean? Like, we're we're trying to solve a problem here together. I'm not going to go and tell the press this thing where we're sitting down together. So being able to have some really open conversations with some of our vendors and say, hey, I actually think this is our problem, this is on us. I don't want you to think that you have to address this in our next QBR. This is something that I think we're going to take care of. Like you guys just focus on this and I'll solve this. Like, you don't mean being able to open up a bit and sit and share responsibility for solving the problems. I hope that that aspect of my vendor engagement is beneficial as much as knowing when someone's pulling my leg or resisting someone's attempt to influence me in their for their own reasons. You know, it's there is a pause again and again to the expertise.

Debbie: [00:11:02] Yeah. And Kyle, that brings up such a great topic. We talk about partnership a lot SmashFly symphony talent has had a long legacy of our customers, saying one of the reasons that they chose us, they stay with us is because of the partnership. And a lot of people that are listening today may mean like what does a partnership mean? And what I am hearing you say is that when you go into a merge with a vendor, which is what you want, you want openness, you want transparency, you want it to say, hey, look, everything may not be perfect, but let's work together to figure out what that solution is. Let's have a conversation around how do we work through this to get the greatest objective for both organizations. Would you agree that that's kind of what we mean when we talk about partnership with vendors? And is there anything you would add to that?


Kyle: [00:11:51] Yeah, I mean. Girl, we could talk literally all weekend about partnership. Look at it, and this is me just thinking of top of my head, look at it like a marriage. And it's about mutual understanding, coming to know one another and recognizing the things that can and cannot be changed and coming to peace with it. You know, working with that. It's about mutual respect that comes from understanding. Like, look, it's I think that there is a lot of energy from the vendor and solution provider side to try to understand the practitioner and the practitioner leader. I do not know that enough practitioner leaders are working to try to understand their partners, their vendors experience and what they're working with. And so it's one sided and we all know what happens. On one side of relationships, resentment grows. It's always the other person's fault. There is no shared accountability. That's not a partnership. That's a that's vendor transactional engagement. Right. So, I mean, and that's that's coming out of the vendor side. Just feel like, God, why you what do you why are you give me such a hard time? Like, I really spent literally all night putting this deck together. And the only thing you tell me is this feels like a sales pitch? Like, do you know the hours it took to put this together?

Debbie: [00:13:14] I want to contribute, but I also need you to contribute to this conversation, too. Right. And so if we want to have an open dialogue, both sides have to come to that conversation, ready to actually have a dialogue and contribute to the conversation and have this sharing of information with out there being a concern of like, uh oh, am I going to say the wrong thing? Or am I giving too much information? No, we've got to all play our cards on the table and figure out what are we playing with.

Kyle: [00:13:46] Absolutely. It's about not being afraid to be wrong. I mean, I acknowledged in calls - just this morning how to call them like, well, maybe I'm wrong about this. I don't know yet, but I think it's important for you to see where we're at. So this is where we're at. Who knows? And I always say things like, well, just between us girlfriends or under friendDA, which my friend Lisa Holden told me the friendDA,

Debbie: [00:14:10] I like the friendDA!

Kyle: [00:14:12] Yeah, I know. But, you can create trust, like you can create trust in a relationship. You can do it playfully. You can do it very directly. Like, look, I'm going to tell you this so we can build partnership, but this doesn't leave this conversation. Those kinds of things, that no one on the vendor side would ever have a job if they couldn't keep something discrete, couldn't be discrete, and so I feel like maybe there is still on the practitioners side, an opportunity for more of us who are leading and engaging with our with the solution provider space to show we have a role to play in partnership as well. Every single vendor is going to be very open to whatever olive branch we extend, any opportunity we offer to get real with each other. Vendors will clamor for that. Right. Because they want that to be.

Debbie: [00:15:06] Absolutely. And I want to take it back to something you led with. You talked about at your last role, you're mid-pandemic, you started to really learn something about yourself from a cultural perspective. And that sounds like it's something you've carried over to your role now at GM as you're looking at your team members and saying you are the expert, I am going to help you. And some of the areas that we talked about where they might be able to use some directive is learning how to find their voice, learning how to present, learning how to speak, which maybe they've never been given an opportunity for in the past. But then how that can help them drive adoption within their teams by leading through influence and showing results. Would you mind sharing with the audience a little bit about your perspective and what you've learned in the last couple of months around that?

Kyle: [00:16:00] Yeah, I mean, the last couple of years. I mean, honestly, even though my whole career I think if I look at the beginning, everyone's afraid to be wrong or to mess up, especially when you're doing like you're you're presenting, you're running a meeting, or you're trying to influence something and you're wrong about something. You know, you beat yourself up over it or you're trying to think that in order to really control the room, you have to be the one that's talking the whole time. You know, there are just like things that most of us don't get hands on coaching about how to influence and how to present  and how to be an expert or share expertise across different stakeholder audiences. And so that was something that I recognized I needed to work on. I'm very wordy, I love to talk, and I'm sure your team is going to have a lot of editing to do with this clip. But  with my team, you know, I looked at them and there's so much raw potential and a lot of I mean, just ambition. They want to do more than just the grind. They want to be experts and they want to grow their their career brand, their own personal brand. So, look, that's half of the job as an analyst is creating a brand, creating a reputation of expertise and trust. But I'm working with them a lot. I still get invited to a lot of speaking, and I love to, but I don't have time for everything. I'm selective. I like to work with people like my friends. And so for my team now I can say, hey, I've got this request, let's do this together. You know, I want you to I want you to present and I'll be there with you and I'll present with you. But I'm going to push you out in front. And internally, hey, you had fifteen minutes for this presentation. You filled the entire fifteen minutes with thirty slides. I think we need to rethink our approach. What if you're going to have fifteen slides, you send those in advance and you open up the meeting with, I sent these slides out two days ago. Did anybody have a chance to review? Do you have any questions? Because if you don't have any questions to lead us with, I'm going to go to what I think are the key points. And then you are controlling that meeting. You're creating the expectation that they reviewed the material that you worked to put together for them. And then you're going to go quickly to what matters most to you. So, you know, there's just a lot of coaching moments there. But genuinely, the biggest thing and this is drawing on last year is being vulnerable, not being perfect. I like to be polished and prepared, like I asked if we could talk to see what what do we want to discuss, because it's just my preference.

Debbie: [00:19:06] You're not going to wing it kind of person.

Kyle: [00:19:09] No, because I also want to have respect for you and for the show. I don't want to come on, be like sure, I'll phone it in. I want to make sure that I have something to say to your audience that's that's valuable for someone that is in their career. They're trying to also elevate and get to that next level. I think there is a pressure to be polished and perfect. You know, and I really have seen that in leadership. Leading with vulnerability is hugely impactful, especially in high pressure moments. I mean, let me get real with you. Ten years ago, I had gotten fired and I could not find another job. And I had to abandon my car because I owed too much money in parking tickets for it. We're talking eight hundred dollars in parking tickets. And fast forward to today. And I had no idea what I was going to do. No idea. Because I was I had just I was a blogger for HRTech, like, what was this? I didn't have a degree and didn't really know what direction I was going to go. And now look at 10 years later, here I am coming into this role, a Fortune 25 company leading talent transformation for talent acquisition transformation at a moment where this company is ambition and goals are to literally change the world of of transportation. Yeah, it's the moment of a lifetime, and I told my team this, you know, and I break down crying and I'm like, I know what it's like to just want someone to give you a chance. I know what it's like to feel like I can do more than you are letting me do. And speaking from that and telling them, like, I like connecting that to when I say you're my experts, that's what I mean. I'm not going to assume I know best. I want you to know to tell me what matters and setting the tone like that with my team. I hope that that makes them feel more comfortable. They have told me that they have never worked with anyone like me before, which is kind of a weird compliment, I think. But that vulnerability, as a leader helps them to feel like they don't have to be perfect either. I have one of my direct reports just yesterday said, Kyle, I'm exhausted. I can't even think straight. Is it OK if I take a half day on Friday and I'm like, yeah, absolutely.

Debbie: [00:22:06] But we talk a lot about being human and being vulnerable and having empathy, and I think everything that you just shared is, first of all, incredibly motivating and moving, but it also exhibits all of those things. And to be the leaders, we need to have all of those things. We need to have empathy for people. We need to have vulnerability. And being transparent in that process. 

Kyle: [00:22:34] And it's not just the not just have it whenever they come to you. And they worked up themselves up to approach you. You lead with vulnerability, so they know, like Kyle, I'm not going to hit this goal.

Debbie: [00:22:50] Like, this is a safe space.

Kyle: [00:22:51] Exactly. You know, if at my team level, that's not a safe space, like, I don't know how we're going to get where we need to go. Transformation is not just like a word you throw around. It is a complete paradigm shift. And so they need to know, like we're going to be in some really uncomfortable moments. 

Debbie: [00:23:11] A lot of growth found an employer that allows you to lead with that, which makes it all kind of come full circle.

Kyle: [00:23:19] And I had no idea what I was getting to at General Motors.

Debbie: [00:23:22] This is just the brand. Like is this really going to be where like I'm going to fit in? And it is.

Kyle: [00:23:32] And now look at me corporate.

Debbie: [00:23:36] I did send a text earlier this week. I was like, I think we need to create a new Twitter handle for you. You're now corporate Kyle. They don't mean that, you are not corporate. But so let's let's switch gears a little bit, because I think you have contributed so much to this industry. And on the vendor side, one of the big things that you championed was this idea of talent operations. And now talent operations is something that we hear commonplace. In fact, you had your own podcast where you spoke to talent operators around the role of talent operations. So share for our audience today what is talent operations and why are you so passionate that it needs to be part of talent?

Kyle: [00:24:23] Oh, I would love to. I mean, look, we all know that ideas are rampant in talent acquisition and HCM. There are so many ideas. There is so much thought leadership out there. It's enough to make your head spin. I had a full time job just keeping up with the thought leadership. That was an innovation that was out there. In talent acquisition specifically, look it's a delivery function. It's not like just a think tank. Right. And for with as rapidly as things evolve in TA, and as frequently as they change, having a leader level owner of process training in enablement, data and governance, systems and innovation, it's critical. In fact, I cannot imagine a sizeable recruiting organization without some sort of operations lead. Because someone's got to own process. Someone's got to constantly look through and say, do we need to do this? Is this is this driving a positive experience? Is this is driving a stakeholder experience? Are these the right KPIs? Somebody needs to take my harebrained ideas and operationalize them. And I mean, look, I stumbled upon this role and how it was evolving. My friend, my friend, Eileen Kovalsky, who actually just joined General Motors, she and I really head into Niki Cochrane, too. We had some conversations about how talent ops was evolving because I had no idea. I had always thought of it as kind of a back office administrative kind of function. And its roots are there. But now you look at any major talent acquisition transformation initiative, and ops is right there. You have maybe a subject matter expert on talent strategy or employer brand or recruitment marketing or diversity and inclusion. And then right beside that subject matter expert is SME with ops and process and tech that helps them bring it all together. So, yeah, it's actually really cool. Debbie, I have people who are in recruiting roles who have volunteered for a tech project and now they want to go full time into ops. I have people who have been in HR IT who really want to get back into recruiting and into the like the cool space. It's been really neat to see a groundswell of people who are getting into talent ops now and talent analytics and things like that. I mean, look on LinkedIn and all of these different really cool companies that are hiring for full time leader level roles, the world's waking up to how important the function is.

Debbie: [00:27:19] Yeah, absolutely. You shared a stat that kind of stuck out to me, and it's still true. You said 95, and it may be you're guessing at that number, but either way, 95 percent of recruiting is delivery and execution. And if so much of success is delivery and execution, there should be a role overseeing that and managing it and making sure that you're delivering it. So where does that fit? Right. When we talk about talent operations, should this be recruiting focused or are we talking talent operations that's doing recruiting and employee when you see that both with your experience but also just across the industry?

Kyle: [00:28:08] Yeah, I mean, I'm going to speak just an opinion, not as an expert here. The size of the organization is a huge factor. If you are like General Motors, 120,000 employees around the world, it's really important for our for us to have an operations lead specifically in the talent acquisition function, who is a deep domain expert in our delivery, in our processes, in our delivery expectations and challenges with our delivery. Who can then liaison with HR and workforce strategy and diversity and inclusion in the business itself? If you look in like a medium sized company or even like a rapid growth startup, I think that having just an obsolete in your talent strategy team somewhere is good, that they're going to stay really close to your product and innovation team and know how much are they had kind of they're going to add and what kind of recruiting efforts do we need to be doing to execute on that? Like it depends on how close knit the team is for us. I would say it's it's really important for enterprise company to have especially a leader to have within their sphere the direct influence, the ability to optimize their process and lead innovation and lead enablement of their delivery teams with with in partnership with other parts of the business. But you've got to have that influence within your own team. Yeah, I can imagine trying to just follow just what our strategy is.

Debbie: [00:29:50] We've implemented, you know, hundreds of customers on our technology. And I will say those that are most successful are ones that have that talent operations role, somebody that can come in and really deliver a successful implementation. And I'm not talking that they have to run the project. Right. But somebody who knows what are the business outcomes that we're looking for, what are our internal rollouts that are going to be more successful? How do we get people internally utilizing the product? Someone that's able to really strategically think about all of those parts and kind of own that project from a tech standpoint?

Kyle: [00:30:29] I agree, yeah, I can lead an evaluation and find a system that's fit for purpose. But as soon as we start digging into API. Those are just skills that I do not have and that I need partnership on because I have vision and I have a mandate to deliver on. I need somebody that can help me execute.

Debbie: [00:30:54] You know, we've got so much goodness to talk about. We are. We're running out of time. And there's one piece that I do not want to leave out of our conversation today, Kyle, because you mentioned it. This is an opportunity of a lifetime for you. And GM is doing something big. They're doing something bold. They have a huge mission ahead of them of zero zero zero that they're trying to accomplish by 2035. And with that, that means that as an organization, you need a different skillset of talent. You have a very variety skillset of talent within the organization. And I've got to imagine that's what's driving some of this transformation that you have come in to establish. Share with our audience a little bit about the work that you're doing and some of the exciting things that are going to come out of the GM recruiting team to support the zero zero zero mission.

Kyle: [00:31:44] Yeah, I would love to. I mean, look, anybody in recruiting knows that the CEO doesn't ask their opinion when they set ambitious business strategies and goals. And so it is up to us to deliver on them as best we can. Zero zero zero: zero crashes, zero emissions, zero congestion. It is part of our innovation strategy to be fully electric. But then also as an entire global organization to be zero emissions, we're not just talking about the cars, zero emissions vehicles. And look, five years ago, we were recruiting mechanical engineers and people that were experts in building combustion engines. And, you know, the innovation then was different than our innovation plan now. And it's not completely different. It's building on and evolving. But we have to find new talent. We need to have electrical engineers. We need to have IOT engineers. We need to have design thinkers. I mean, in talent acquisition. They needed someone who had been an analyst and a strategist and now is running this. Like we need completely diversified talent pipelines. And with our big campaign, is everybody in. We believe that our vision is relevant to everyone. And so anyone can come and be a part of this. That creates a lot of inbound. And I mean, and every recruiter knows you can't get to every applicant. My goal is actually for us, especially in our critical skills and pipelines that we have. It's I'm in this is that zero emissions talent pipeline. And what that means is no one slips through the cracks. If anyone expresses interest in being a part of General Motors, then they can be a part of our journey. Maybe that journey is not hiring them today. Maybe it is just getting them plugged in to how we're innovating regularly, what are what's going on with us and to getting a recruitment marketing operation in place that can put them into nurture campaigns and keep them those leads warm. So when there is a role that they are relevant for, they know what we're up to, they know what we're doing and they can jump right back in. But then it's also anybody who who makes it through the screening process. Anyone who is screened but isn't hired has to immediately be re-dispositioned. Has to be reintegrated into our pipeline. If they're good enough, good enough for one hiring manager to say maybe, then I'm absolutely going to get them in front of another hiring manager. And I have to do that, by the way, without adding new headcount. I have to do that with systems and tech that's going to help us to quickly identify where the next fit role is and integrate them. So it's my boss, Cyril George. He talks about it as being 10 percent AI, 20 percent systems, and 70 percent people in process. My life is inverted. It's like 70 percent tech, AI, and systems and building all of this so that I can just plug my people in. But I'll tell you that I think the big thing that's going to help this succeed is that it's connected to our most strategic business objectives, that zero zero zero concept. That means anyone in the HR leadership team, anyone in the executive leadership team, if I say zero emissions talent pipeline, they're immediately going to think about, OK, I understand where he's going with this. I think I understand what this means. It's a lot easier to get buy in and help me with changing the way that we operate, the way that we hire, the way that we recruit.

Debbie: [00:35:36] Absolutely. And we we talk about all the time that as TA leaders, we need to tie our objectives, our initiatives to the CEOs, and I love the creative way in which you've done it. It is clever. It is catchy. I cannot wait for a year from now to watch, maybe even two years. Right. Watch some of the success coming out of it. But as we've talked about, this isn't a 12 month, 24 month strategy. You're thinking as this is the business that needs to achieve this by 2035. We need to create systems and process and people that are going to achieve that long term goal, which is, I think what's going to set you up for true success.

Kyle: [00:36:22] I hope so. I mean, look, because it's also something that needs to be delivered tomorrow, right? But look, we're all sharing best practices in the space that is competitive. But we can we can all grow together. My real goal is pointing this concept and my my talent brand strategy and early careers. If we're thinking about 1035, that's 14 years away. So your sons could very well be a part of what I'm trying to accomplish at General Motors, what General Motors is trying to accomplish. And so getting really plugged in to what this new generation of talent cares about. Understanding where they engage and how all of that. I think it's going to start to future prove that zero emissions concept is more about candidate concierge's, like candidate experience and zero waste, zero congestion in the candidate process.

Debbie: [00:37:20] Really, that sounds like you need to go ahead and migrate Minecraft and figure out how to use Minecraft. Then you've got my boys right.

Kyle: [00:37:33] While I was watching Rick and Morty last night on I think is on  YouTube TV and I'm thinking, oh, should I put an ad on Rick and Morty?

Debbie: [00:37:42] Well, I'm sitting here thinking, maybe not my boys, but I know that you and Brian want to start a family. Isn't it crazy to think that your kids may not ever drive? Like they may not even. What will it look like when we need to learn to drive electric vehicles and self-driving cars? It will be a totally different experience. And that makes me very excited. Also blows my mind. It is it is a wild future and you guys are on the forefront of it. And we talked about this zero zero zero for GM is way bigger than just cars.

Kyle: [00:38:18] We are building a new land lunar rover. We're developing the new lunar rover with Boeing. We're building a fully electric locomotive. I mean, genuinely, when I say this is a dream of a lifetime, it's not just the recruiting work. It is General Motors making a complete a total impact on the world. It's nuts. 

Debbie: [00:38:43] So Kyle, to wrap us up. We shared a lot today. We've shared about how your expertise in the analyst inventor has really kind of shaped the way that you are tackling this project at GM. We've talked about leadership and how we need to lead with empathy and really set the stage for those candid conversations. We've talked about partnership with the vendors and how key that is to, again, have that transparency, have that partnership. We're in this marriage together. Let's make things work together. And we've talked about some of the fun work that you guys are doing and how you're structuring things at GM to actually execute on it. If you were to leave our listeners with one piece of advice on where to start on their own #journeyofyes, What would that be?

Kyle: [00:39:32] I would say achieve through others. Look, I mean, there is so much that's happening in talent acquisition right now, I think that we will look at this decade of innovation back and say this was a turning point for me. Give everyone that opportunity to have this, too. This is not my opportunity. This is an opportunity of a lifetime for me. But we've just talked about, like I tell my team, I need you. I want you to succeed. I would say look at how you can bring others along for this journey with you.

Debbie: [00:40:07] Your success will be their success. This is a collective right?

Kyle: [00:40:11] It is. No one person can accomplish this. And you should be pushing everyone out into the limelight. You should be pushing everyone to take on that project that will help them stretch. I think that listening really closely to the people who are working up for you and focusing on enabling them, it's going to, that's the only way we're going to get where we need to go, honestly.

Debbie: [00:40:35] Thank you so much. It's been such a joy chatting with you. And for those of you that are listening, if you want to join us on this #journeyofyes, follow us on Spotify or wherever you're listening to our podcast. Join us at the joypipeline.com. Kyle, as always, thank you so much.

Kyle: [00:40:53] Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. I look forward to the next episode.

Debbie: [00:40:58] Absolutely.