We throw jargon around in our workplaces all the time. But when we blanket cover everything in industry-specific language, we lose value.

Programmatic job advertising is a prime example of this disconnect. 

Programmatic recruiting is more than job boards and are essential to your recruitment marketing and talent acquisition strategies — especially today. 

• Programmatic ads use sophisticated algorithms to serve job and company ads to people who fit the profile of a possible candidate for your organization.
  
  
• Programmatic ads optimize the ad buying process in real-time, leading to high cost-efficiency. 
  
  
• Even better, programmatic talent acquisition software requires a minimum of manual tweaks and monitoring, freeing up your time to handle other critical (and more people-centric) tasks.

Debbie Tuel and Sean Quigley chat on programmatic advertising and lay down some truths on what it all means in a fun myth-buster game — check it out!

Debbie Tuel: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the RM Podcast. I'm your host Debbie Tuel. And I hope that you are ready for an all new lineup of experts who are itching to step out of the parameters of traditional recruitment and talent acquisition speak and get real on what it means to recruit on a worker economy and quite frankly, an upside down world. Let's dig in together.

Debbie Tuel: If you're one of our loyal listeners or you've been following the RM Podcast for a while, then you know that my roots in recruitment marketing come from CareerBuilder. Back then, the post and pre methodology was thriving. You need more applicants, don't wait 30 days for your job to at expire. Post it every week. Post it on niche boards, post it in new locations. Always the same answer, you need more applicants, post your job more times. And oftentimes, you didn't know if that strategy was effective or not until 60, 90, six months later.

Debbie Tuel: So while we've evolved in the last 15 years, because we throw jargon around in the workplace all the time, new terminology tends to lose its value. And in recruiting, programmatic advertising is a prime example of this disconnect. Is programmatic advertising just a new way to tackle the post and pre methodology? No. Programmatic ads are more than just job boards and they are essential to your recruitment marketing and talent acquisition strategies. So today, I am joined by Sean Quigley to lay down some truths on what it all means in a fun mythbuster game. Take a listen.

Debbie Tuel: Sean. Welcome. How are you?

Sean Quigley: Hey Debbie, doing great. Thanks for having me back.

Debbie Tuel: Absolutely. So everyone reached out to us, sharing how much value they got out of our session, No Cookies? No Problem. So we're like, we've got to get Sean back on the show on the podcast so we can explore a little bit further, not only about cookieless tracking, but I think really taking it back and giving our listeners a little bit more background into why are we even talking about tracking and what is digital advertising and what is programmatic advertising? So for a little background to our listeners, if you are not familiar with Sean, go find him on LinkedIn. You should be. He was the innovator of the year and business leader in the 2018 TAtech ReSI Awards. He has worked on the top HR product M-Cloud, and at the most innovative recruitment advertising agency, Symphony Talent, which is how we have gotten the opportunity to work together. We've been working together for the last three years. But Sean, how long have you been at Symphony Talent?

Sean Quigley: Wow. 13 years now. 13 magnificent years. It's been quite a ride.

Debbie Tuel: It has been. So you really got to see kind of this whole world of recruitment marketing from its infancy.

Sean Quigley: Yeah. I'd say that. So consumer space prior, but working with all the ad servers and the ad networks and really the early days, very early days of programmatic. Smart media was the first thing that we did in the banner space and then into smart click. And then you mentioned M-Cloud which we did win that award for, and now we're building that all into SmashFly X. So it's been really exciting.

Debbie Tuel: So let's take 10 steps backwards. Right? You said you came from the consumer world.

Sean Quigley: Yep.

Debbie Tuel: And came over and really got to work on the recruitment in the programmatic ad space from the very early days. What were those early days?

Sean Quigley: So the early days was programmatic was sort of supplementing traditional job boards. The early days was really Indeed was just starting out when I came on in 2008. Indeed was a very small company. We thought of that as pay-per-click. But what we were trying to do with sort of Yahoo, HotJobs and Monster and CareerBuilder, those were just plans that we were implementing. So we had media budgets and we were reaching out and placing those on behalf of all of our clients, but thinking about how to supplement those with smart digital strategies from the consumer world. So that was about the real time bidding that you could do on behalf of brands, but taking that technology and moving that over to recruitment. So that was more about targeting and identifying what sorts of people that you could reach based on their criteria online.

Sean Quigley: So in the consumer space, that would be about identifying a buyer. So who's going to go out and purchase something online or be a brand target. In our space, it's who's a good fit for a job. So that's mostly about finding occupation targets online. So if you have an accounting role, you have to target accountants or a call center role or a retail sales role, you want to go out and try to identify those targets. So we would go out and try to aggregate those data sets and find ad inventory, whether it's banner ads or search advertising. And that's really where programmatic came out first with smart media, which was sort of the DSP, demand side platform, space. And then that was really the first product that we launched around that period, which was about bidding. That's really the real time bidding side of that, where we would go out and identify these audiences, which aligned to where our clients were trying to hire and try to purchase that.

Sean Quigley: And the real time aspect comes from if it was working well, if we saw a certain inventory was resulting in applications, that inventory we would just buy more of. So really, from the beginning, it was tying it into the data. And so the data was always about the foundational aspect of how we purchased everything. The other aspect, the job board aspect of it, was still being measured. But the flexibility of it didn't come till later because the pay-per-click flexibility aspect of that was sort of just starting out at that point in time.

Debbie Tuel: Well, Sean, I wish I had met you in 2008 because I was at CareerBuilder at the time. I think that hindsight 20/20, we were definitely blindsided by this pay-per-click, pay-per-apply model that Indeed came out with. And I can't imagine how hard it would've been to educate the buyers around that. We were still trying to educate the buyers around, you should not place an ad in your newspaper any longer, you should place it online, much less talking to them about, oh and you can pay-for-performance. You don't have just say here's a $350 job posting and it's going to be valid for 30 days, I don't care whether you get your applicant or not.

Sean Quigley: Yeah, exactly. I felt that at the time, that the entire space was sort of just catching up to the fact that it was online, nevermind new purchase models and not about purchasing a contract up front, but about being more flexible and things like that. So how rapid these things change over time? It's sometimes the consumer space does lead it a little bit because it does happen over more rapid cycles. But the good thing about this is those models can be proven out and we could kind of see what's working and what's not. And then really follow the models, follow the things that have been proven out and really have the path paved for us.

Debbie Tuel: And I think most of the industry has caught up to this idea of, hey, my buyer, which is the consumer here, which are talent acquisition leaders, is asking me to pay-for-performance of the advertising that I've spent with them. But Sean, you have relationships with some of the largest job boards in the world, and you have many of them. What percentage are we at today? And that you could rough guess this, that actually use that pay-for-performance model where customers can use a programmatic advertising to advertise on them versus those that are still stuck in the "Nope, you're going to pay for posting and it's a 30 day posting and that's how it's going to work, period"?

Sean Quigley: Yeah, that's an interesting question on a worldwide basis. It's probably pretty low because we actually are sort of plugged into basically all the job boards worldwide. So we kind of take an agnostic approach to just being able to distribute jobs everywhere in our platform. And so whether it's pay-per-click or duration based, you're just able to track it and to see what's working and what's not. So whether you're being programmatic about it and having it automatically slot it in, or whether a source or a recruiter is going in and using the user interface and just sort of clicking and having a sort of a shopping cart experience and just purchasing it. All of those models are acceptable. And so if it's Naukri in India or StepStone in Germany, some of those models aren't really necessarily pay-per-click, although they might be evolving because they have some relationships that are starting to form with pay-per-click businesses.

Sean Quigley: But then you have the model like Indeed in Glassdoor. So it's a small proportion of the market, but then Indeed is sort of consolidating, right? So Indeed has purchased Glassdoor and Workopolis, so it's one big player, but it's also consolidating a lot of the industry and things like that. And obviously, LinkedIn is a big player, but that's not pay-per-click, but they have flexible options technically. So it's sort of a half answer. So we have programmatic slots, and so you still have to get a committed contract, but we use our flexible model in order to let rules based buying slot in whatever job needs the most attention in a given campaign and things like that. So you could use programmatic rules in order to make use of a contract, but then you don't have the flexibility necessarily to shut it off or to buy more on the fly. It's sort of a mixed answer, but on a numbers basis, it's certain low, but on a-

Debbie Tuel: The ones that count.

Sean Quigley: Yeah. For the amount of money, it's moving in that direction. And so it's getting to the point where it's more 50/50.

Debbie Tuel: And as you see the new players come on to the market and say, "Okay, we're going to try to be the next big job board or the next place that employers are advertising," which model are they going towards? Are they looking to really satisfy the consumer?

Sean Quigley: The newer models are certainly more focused on where the growth is, and that's within the pay-for-performance model, which is either pay-per-click or pay-for-performance. The challenges along the way, cookie tracking or changing in terms of pay for applications and things like that. So pay-per-click is pretty locked in, that's safe. That's the Google model, the Indeed model, the Facebook model. So that's definitely the safe model that you see most often.

Debbie Tuel: And again, I highly recommend that if you have not listened to Sean, and I talk about the cookieless model, go over to HR Tech, listen to that. But quick synopsis for those that are listening today, if you're not familiar, many of the web browsers have already gotten away from the idea of using cookies to track you as an individual. Google has announced that they are going to be sunsetting that as well. And so that impacts the way that customers are able to track their advertising strategies and other things. Where do you see that, Sean, being a pro or a con when we talk about programmatic advertising?

Sean Quigley: Yeah, that's a great question. So it really depends on how you're set up and how you're looking at things moving forward, and really who you're asking on behalf of the candidate, the client and things like that. So in terms of, if you want to maximize your tracking, you do have options to do that. And it really sort of depends on if you have end to end in place, because it's about really, if you have first party data end to end, where you could marry the data that you're seeing in terms of how you're tracking candidates coming in the door onto your job detail pages. And if you have ATS integrations where you could then marry that on the back end to who's applying and then deeper statuses.

Debbie Tuel:

So if you're explaining this to my mom, end to end means that you're tracking the candidate from the first time that they see you and they're tracking, you're able to get analytics all the way through if they make it into the ATS or not. Right?

Sean Quigley:

Yeah. Basically it means that you really can't have a tech stack that's divided up across a lot of players because it's mostly about the data can't change it a lot of hands.

Debbie Tuel:

And now you're not going to be able to use cookies, which the positive is cookies were highly inefficient, unreliable maybe is the right word, right? I'm an anonymous person. I can touch a cookie multiple times and I'm going to count as multiple times.

Sean Quigley:

And even on that, that's one of the misconceptions a little bit, because it's a little bit about cookies, but it's mostly about first party versus third party. If it's a first party cookie, that's something. So if it's on say your career's website and you're capturing data, or you're using it to autopopulate a form for someone that's already been there, so you're not asking them to enter their email every single time they come back, that's a first party cookie.

Debbie Tuel:

So you can still do that?

Sean Quigley:

Yeah, you could still do that. So the browser rules are mostly about third party tracking. So whether you're using-

Debbie Tuel:

So putting a pixel on the thank you for applying page of your application, is that first party, second party, allowed, third part?

Sean Quigley:

It's mostly-

Debbie Tuel:

Bring the whole group to the party.

Sean Quigley:

The way to judge it is if it's the same domain. So if it's your website and the pixel is your domain pixel, www.companyname.com and then the pixel is www.companyname.com, that's first party.

Debbie Tuel:

But if it's www.companyname.com, hand it over to www.workday, that's where we come into a challenge. And that's where you're saying it needs to be end to end, we need to have some consistency across.

Sean Quigley:

Yeah. That would be considered third party and it would be blocked by a browser. So Workday would come in as a very valuable data source because you're going to need that on the back end. They're the source of-

Debbie Tuel:

Let's match up the email addresses. Let's have some actual PII that we can match up.

Sean Quigley:

You got it. Exactly. The email address is, from the candidate's perspective, that's where it also comes into who's actually voluntarily giving over their information. So candidates are saying, "I want to be considered for this job," and that email address handover is sort of the signal for that. So that's also the source of how we connect data together. So not only for the sake of knowing where this source came from, here's where they came in the door and here's their email. And then downstream, we then have them in Workday, the same email. And then we see that they're now in the interview stage, and now on the higher stage, now you could track, yeah, they came in from Google or CareerBuilder or wherever. And by the way, they're in the interview stage. That's how you could piece that all together.

Sean Quigley:

But that's also how you can do really advanced things like if we want to work with Indeed in the future and say, "Hey, has your Indeed company profile page influenced this hire?" We could work with them on a hashed emailing approach where it's an encrypted email where we marry the email addresses up in an anonymized way. So that really neither of us can see each other's email addresses, but we could then get a measurement on which one of our applicants actually went and read the company reviews on Indeed. So Indeed's interested in doing that because that's a purchase product and we're interested in doing that.

Debbie Tuel:

We want to be able to show the value to their customers. Yeah, absolutely.

Sean Quigley:

And same thing for our clients. We want to be able to do that. So that email collection is the central piece of all of that.

Debbie Tuel: So you're blowing my mind. I'm learning a ton. I thought it might be fun for our listeners if we did a little bit of a myth versus fact. So I'm going to ask you a question that I have heard about programmatic advertising and you get to either debunk what I'm saying or say "Yep, that is actually true." All right, so very first one. In doing my research, I read that the precursor to programmatic advertising was the banner, or in the recruiting world, a job ad on Monster or CareerBuilder. Is that true?

Sean Quigley: I would say that is true. I'd say they're both true, sort of. Because banners are really how programmatics started. The demand side platform, that really arose out of the need to aggregate all of the supply for banner advertising, which was all of the different ad exchanges in the marketplace. And ad exchanges are just groups of publishers. So unlike Google, that has a monopoly basically over search, the banner ad space has been really fragmented. So it's been different to buy all of that and to target specific audiences and to bid on specific audiences against others. So it's basically about setting up a marketplace where, if that inventory is worth more to you than some other buyer, you're basically getting it.And then if it's worth more to some other buyer, they're getting it.

Sean Quigley: So that's actually an auction model that happens in real time that programmatic doesn't actually happen in the job space. So that's extreme programmatic that still hasn't been replicated. Programmatic actually means something different when we talk about it in the jobs space. So we sort of took that word from the banner space and just used it and it kind of means something completely different. So that's actually where it came from. And then we took it and what it's actually doing, we're not doing real time bidding in the same way for banners, we're not bidding on Indeed and then it's a live auction that happens at some-

Debbie Tuel: And then it's spreading on 20 different places.

Sean Quigley: Yeah, it's not like... With banners, it's sort of happening in a nanosecond and lots of bidders are going and we're making a determination in that time. If someone else is bidding more, they get it. If we're bidding more, we get it. Based on lots of factors and things like that. And that's how Google auctions work also, it's basically an auction. If you're bidding more for the inventory and if you're more likely to click, Google will just serve it to you. So that's a real auction. With programmatic in our space, it's really more about rules that you can set up to shut off jobs to auto optimize. So if you have a campaign budget running across lots of sites to evenly distribute that money across sites and to have an algorithm shift the money to the better performing sites. So there's different things that we mean when we say programmatic. It's mostly about things that happen automatically, that would be impossible for a person to do.

Debbie Tuel: To be able to shut it off once I've hit my max applications, or what we think is the number of applications that we need, or be able to shift the spend based on easy to fill jobs or hard to fill jobs or well performing sites or less performing sites.

Sean Quigley: Exactly. And even more granular things like if there's 1,000 job jobs in a campaign to shut off some of the jobs. And if some of the jobs are pacing really well, spend a little less on those. And if some are pacing a little slower, spend a little more on those. If some are brand new, spike those up because new jobs should get a spike up. So sort of sub rules within a campaign and to have that happen every day. All these micro changes, that would be an enormous amount of work for anyone to try to manage by hand.

Debbie Tuel: All right. We use the tech to do it. All right. Fact or myth programmatic advertising isn't as effective because it's only giving me low quality or remnant inventory.

Sean Quigley: That is definitely a myth, specifically because programmatic is about the data that you pay attention to. So if your programmatic is set up to not pay attention to quality signals, you could be not optimizing toward the right things. If you're set up to minimize your spend as your overall goal, I just want to spend less money for the sake of it, and there's not really any other goal metrics set up, there could be a potential outcome. But it's really about the data inputs that are being looked at. So that's why the downstream metrics and the ATS integrations are critical. Applications, and not just applications, but what applications are converting to interview, to hire because that's going to create that quality score that then impacts the entire system for each individual campaign in a different way too, because different sites work better for different campaigns.

Sean Quigley: So for a given client, there might be sales rep jobs and call center jobs, distribution center, and IT, software engineer, a whole spectrum of different sorts of campaigns where different sites are working better for each type of campaign. You don't make a decision on an overall basis. That's what you would do if you take shortcuts when you're just trying to look at the data in one go. But when you have the data broken out by campaign and you're letting the system do it, that's where it's not taking shortcuts.

Debbie Tuel: Absolutely. Yeah, you can't have a one size fits all approach across your entire hiring strategy. Next, fact or myth, programmatic advertising means that I'm going to have no control over where my job goes or the price that I'm paying and I know I'm going to end up paying more overall.

Sean Quigley: That's a myth, also. All of our automation, we actually have manual override controls on everything. So whether or not it's wise, all of our clients have access to the full data. But we give control over everything. So within the UI, so the idea that there's no control isn't true. The other feature I mentioned, the job at advertise feature where you can actually just go to any job and post it anywhere, whether it's programmatic or not programmatic, it could be Craigslist or CareerBuilder or StepStone or anywhere, or Google or banners or video ads, really anything. We're not saying only spend on programmatic or pay-per-click sites.

Sean Quigley: So it's about whatever works for the end goals, first of all. But even within the programmatic campaigning, within each campaign where site optimization algorithms are running and it's set to change based on whatever's working better, based on those end metrics, if a client or a client team servicing a client wants to lock in a budget for, I'm not going to say a site, but site ABC, spend this amount on the site no matter what, I don't care if it's working or not, we have a little lock-

Debbie Tuel: That sounds really wise. Yeah, let's definitely do that. Just give my money away, even if it's not performing.

Sean Quigley: Yeah. There could be some theory, like we want to do a two month test to play it out. So we have a little locking icon. So you could lock it in place. You want to get a bigger data set before you let any changes happen to it. So those sorts of overrides can be done really at any level in the system. And that goes for campaigns too. Or even the jobs leveling that I mentioned, if the jobs we don't want to automatically shut off jobs that are getting plenty of applications, we could just keep getting applications to the jobs that have plenty.

Debbie Tuel: All right. So it sounds like tons of control for our customers that want it. But the whole point is that you don't need to have control. You're going to be able to spend more effectively, use your budgets wiser using a systematic approach that's following the data to advertise your jobs correctly. Next, fact or myth, having the right advertising strategy means that I'm going to fill the top of my funnel and I no longer have to worry about fostering a relationship with candidates.

Sean Quigley: I would say that'd be a myth, really also because they go hand in hand. And if you want to be more efficient-

Debbie Tuel: You don't want to a leaky bucket, right?

Sean Quigley: Yeah. Especially if you want to get better and better over time. Focusing on the whole funnel matters in any good marketing strategy. So when you think about optimizing any marketing funnel, it's about all of the percents going down the funnel. So it's like if you think of a banner ad, like the click through rate and then if, once they click through, what about the landing page, if we can improve that a little bit.

Sean Quigley: So if you just focus on any one of those and improve 10% on one of them, sure, that great. But if you did that at every step in the funnel, it multiplies the impact. But the same for nurturing those candidates, if you could keep those candidates nurtured in the door, you don't have to repurchase them. So if you're not having to repurchase at first 10%, then 20%, then 30, then 40, then more and more of your candidates, that just frees up more of that advertising budget over time to go after the harder to fill. It does work hand in hand, it's all part of the same system in marketing. You can't really focus on any one win and say, we don't need anything else.

Debbie Tuel: Last one, fact or myth, programmatic is just job boards.

Sean Quigley: Yeah, myth. That's definitely the biggest myth because it all really started from everything but job boards. It's job boards. And even the word programmatic is a little problematic because it means so many things to so many people and it's really about what works in the situation. It might be no outside spendings needed and some emailing is needed or it might be, we need to get some billboards up somewhere because there's a local event. So it's really about the given situation.

Debbie Tuel: Even doing work with TV audiences. Right?

Sean Quigley: Right. And we're connected TV audiences too. So there's a lot we could do programmatically even through online video, but also through set top online connected TV. So if there's video assets, if there's banner assets, if there's rich media, especially. But search, we have a tracking links feature. So anyone could go in and create a link for anything. So it's sort of every everything that we do is tracked, that's automatic and built into the system. But we have this approach where anything else you could do, you could create a length, QR code, Bitly. So if someone's doing social posts that are just free posts, that stuff.

Sean Quigley: The best approach is just make sure everything's tracked and showing up in the same campaigns in the same data set and that it's not in lots of different data sets. So if there's a hiring event campaign, your programmatic pay-per-click sites are there, your duration job board sites, your Google, your Facebook, Instagram, any offline media, anything that you're doing is in that one campaign so that you could see what really worked, what didn't, because maybe three months later, there's going to be another one and you're going to learn from it that way.

Debbie Tuel: Absolutely. So the key takeaways that I'm hearing here, Sean, for our listeners, is there are a lot of places for you to be able to get your job opportunities in front of the right audience. And that is near impossible for a talent acquisition leader to manage. So get help, there is technology out there that can help you. Feel free to reach out to Symphony Talent if you'd like more information. As always, Sean, I appreciate the knowledge that you've shared with us. You have watched this industry grow from its infant days to now, last question, before we go into rapid fire, where do you see the next generation going? What do you see happening in the next five years that you're excited about?

Sean Quigley: That's a great question. So new forms of media are coming. I know everyone's excited about the metaverse. And I was a little skeptical, but my kids are diving in. They have the Oculuses and stuff. So I could maybe start seeing some potential in that. In terms of what our industry could do more, the interesting thing is we're just a little bit behind where stuff is. And so what consumer is doing is video. And there's really not a lot of video happening in our space relative to what's happening in consumer. I don't know if I'm speaking for the entire industry right now, but there's a massive gap in that. And the data is phenomenal, especially if you have email capture.

Sean Quigley: So without cookies and without remarketing based on third party cookies tracking from a career site and then remarketing to them with a video, if you have the email capture and you have a CRM and you're collecting those emails, the interesting thing, companies like LiveRamp where you can take a full CRM or buy folders or buy target, and you could create an audience and then market to those people across connected TVs and across online video with really rich sight, sound and video. So I would really like to see creative get really great in our space.

Debbie Tuel: You've got my mind spinning now, that Meta and the Oculus, we have an Oculus too. Can you imagine a world where like you want to visit our office? Cool, go get on your Oculus and you can come visit our office and do it in this virtual sense. Or you want to know what a day in a life of a job is? Cool, here's an app for it and put on your VR headset and go experience the job. There's some really cool stuff that could be done there.

Sean Quigley: Yeah. And even without those sets, I know Apple's going to jump in and there's stuff that's just available on phones and on PCs and stuff like that. Remote has been large. So it's going to happen. I think it's really about the targeting and the email connection, but then making the creative shine. So it's not just about, I think we've just gone down the rabbit hole in terms of the technicalities of the video and stuff like that. Taking a step back, what are we really doing this for? It's to get a great message in front of a candidate and it's really competitive out there. It's not just about, Hey, what worked, what didn't, but why did it work? We got to do AB testing and really craft some great messages. And I think there has a lot more focus on, are we getting really compelling messages in front of candidates? Are we reaching them?

Debbie Tuel: To that point, you started the show, it all starts with the data. And if you don't have the data to be able to do those AB testing, to be able to see what's working, then none of it matters. So amazing. Sean, real quick, before you leave, what is one book or podcast that you would recommend from this past year?

Sean Quigley: Chad and Cheese.

Debbie Tuel: All right. Who doesn't love Chad and Cheese? Hopefully I'll be on the firing squad soon. Who is the one person that you think everyone should follow, if they want to learn more? Who do you get your industry knowledge from?

Sean Quigley: I'm not sure if this is in the industry, but Scott Galloway and Pivot Podcast, he was my professor.

Debbie Tuel: Awesome.

Sean Quigley: So I learned about Meta and all that stuff from him.

Debbie Tuel: All right. What would you ask our next guest? One question that you would ask of our next guest?

Sean Quigley: That question you just asked. I think that's a great question, because I always like tips on where to get more information.

Debbie Tuel: We will make sure that we ask them that. And finally, Sean, if people want to find more of you, how do they find you?

Sean Quigley: That's a tricky one. I'm not on anything. But LinkedIn, maybe. I'll check once a year, but I'll try to get better.

Debbie Tuel: Perfect. Thank you, Sean. I appreciate it. For those of you that are listening, we always appreciate a subscribe. Go find the RM Podcast on wherever you listen to your podcast, wherever you're listening right now today, hit subscribe. Leave us a review on how we can get better and how we can bring you more relevant content. Thank you again and have a great day.

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